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Thursday, March 8, 2012

Droolin', Mouth Breathin' Trolls

On my last post, I was talking - in general - about laws we've got that are simply insane.  We have regulations that are in place where you can be punished without harming or infringing upon the rights of another.

The raw milk case I gave is a perfect example.  Because some bureaucrat has deemed raw milk to be a public health issue, people all around the country are being thrown in jail, and having their assets seized.

It's insanity.

And not surprisingly, the post brought out a "law-and-order" troll.  His argument is basically that the raw milk folks knew the law, chose to ignore it, and are paying the price.  His apparent belief is that if The State makes a law, it is incumbent on all subjects citizens to follow all laws.  Not some laws, but all laws.

I can respect that stance.  Well, I can respect it if Mr. Mouth Breather walks the walk.

This year, about 40,000 new laws [link] went into effect across the country.   That's up from the 31,000 [link] that went into effect last year

Most laws no longer abide by the concept of mens rea (guilty mind).   Your intent is irrelevant.  Break the law, pay the price.

As I noted last November ("Mens Rea and Other Bygone Concepts") -
The problem, now, is reasonableness.  The phrase, "Zero Tolerance" has crept into our lexicon.  It is rapidly upsetting the balance between mens rea and ignorantia juris non excusat.  We are replacing the context of an event with a rule book.
With that in mind, I hope Mr. Mouth Breather has stayed abreast of all the local, state and federal laws that pertain to his little slice of the world.  Since he is such a stickler for details and clearly has never met a law he didn't like, here's what he needs to do:

He needs to request audits of his life and lifestyle from the government officials who definitely have kept abreast of the laws.

Let's start with your car.  If you've ever spoken with a police officer, they'll tell you that regardless of the make, model or year of a car, they can find a violation.  So, in keeping with his pledge of Public Perfection, Mr. Mouth Breather needs to take his car down to his local police department (following all traffic laws along the way, of course).  He needs to inform the desk sergeant of his desire for a full and complete review of his vehicle, with the specific instructions that each and every major AND minor infraction be brought to his attention. The officer should be requested to issue fines and/or "fix-it" tickets for all infractions.

Since this service of the local police was a special request, Mr. Mouth Breather needs to be sure to reimburse the PD for the salary, benefits and all other expenses associated with his noble request.

His next stop should be to his local building inspector.  Same deal - request the audit, insist on every little violation being disclosed, then pay the piper.  After all, if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear, right?  Welcome them into your home with open arms.

After that, he can hit the local tax assessor, state tax authority, the IRS, the USDA (so they can make sure all of his milk is safe) - hell, just about every three- and four-lettered state and federal agency.  They've all got laws that need to be followed, and Mr. Mouth Breather is bound and determined to follow them all.

Since our laws very often change during the year, he needs to request - and pay for - these audit services at least 3 or 4 times a year.  No chance of something falling out of compliance so he ends up being a nasty Law Breaker.

Of course, the way our society should function would be for the government to regulate, not to operate.

With the raw milk, for instance, the regulation should state that since raw milk has the potential to cause harm to humans, the producers need to put a big, bright red label on every bottle that states as much.  Similar to what they do with cigarettes.  You've been informed that this stuff might kill you, now do what you want.

But ya see, there's no power or cash flow in that kind of system.  Why, the USDA wouldn't have the need for its tactical squad to take down milk felons.  They wouldn't have the ability to start asset forfeiture proceedings to pay for the tac squad.  Imagine the bedlam that would follow.

I shudder at the thought.

So, Mr. Mouth Breather, get on it.  Now!  Time's a-wastin' and fines need to be assessed.  Plus, think how well you'll sleep with the knowledge that you've met your goal of Public Perfection.

Yeah, boy!

H/T to my bro.  I was going to let Mr. Mouth Breather slide...

Copyright 2012 Bison Risk Management Associates. All rights reserved. Please note that in addition to owning Bison Risk Management, Chief Instructor is also a partner in a precious metals business. You are encouraged to repost this information so long as it is credited to Bison Risk Management Associates.


Anonymous said...

You have to respond to all of these idiots. It is in the conservative mind set to ignore the idiots, to change the channel rather than to demand the offending individual be silenced. The liberal wants the government to control every ones actions and thoughts.

Oblio13 said...

We are all un-convicted felons. The American Way is to make everything illegal and to then selectively prosecute.

If George Washington came back to life, how many things would he get busted for? His horse and foxhounds weren't registered, Mount Vernon didn't have a building permit or an occupancy permit, and he'd be tased for wearing his sword.

Anonymous said...

I actually beleieve in the raw milk thingy. In fact I take it one step further. Lets stop having food service people wash their hands. Hell, a few germs don't hurt us humans have been consuming food prepared by unwashed hands for centuries. And food from unwashed hands is healthier for you, has more natural good bugs for your tummy and more vitamins then those plain old washed hands have. Lets stop pasteurizing our hands and enjoy food as it was meant to be eaten.

Anonymous said...

Now lets see if you walk the walk. Only eat at restaurants where the cooks and food servers don't wash their hands. Remove the sink and soap from the rest rooms. Those "natural" bugs are good for you. Take a chance, what could go wrong. People have been eating from unpasteurized hands all their lives. No need for laws, we don't need no stinking laws!

Anonymous said...

If you are interested and can stop flinging poo (mouth breather) long enough to understand that possibly someone else has an opinion and they might just have a point.

I don't care if you drink raw milk. I don't care if half the country drinks raw milk. I simply do not one raw milk and products made from raw milk introduced into the food supply. Buy a cow and milk it right into your mouth, I don't care. But you can't sell it or sell the products made from it into the food chain. It is unfair to those who do not want to drink raw milk. This is a matter of where your rights stop and someone else's rights begin.

I will say something that will surely cause everyone to disagree; I don't think you should be able to feed children raw milk either. When they are adults if they want to drink raw milk then it is their decision.

Adam said...

Anon 7:07, Seriously? It isn't like they are introducing raw milk into the generic food supply chain where someone could accidentally pick it up.

They are selling it to people who KNOW what they are getting and WANT raw milk. They aren't putting it on the grocery store where you, who doesn't want raw milk, will get it.

If I want to use raw milk, the only way you could accidentally drink it is if you are a guest at my house and you get some milk. And that would be my fault, not the people who sold it to me.

Personally, I think it's asinine to put people in jail for selling raw milk. And this comes from a cop.

Anonymous said...

Raw milk has been introduced into the food chain in the past in exactly this way. A belief or attitude that it's no big deal and they make it into queso fresco and it gets served at a restaurant or food truck and people get sick. It happens.

They were not put in jail for selling raw milk. They were served with an order to cease and desist and to appear in court. They refused to do this and that is why they were served with a warrant. When you break the law it doesn't matter if it is a speeding ticket or assault if you show up in court you get your day and your say. If you refuse they come looking for you and now you've broken another law. All they had to do was show up in court and not sell the raw milk in the mean time. They decided to change from being a retailier to being an activist.

Chief Instructor said...

Anon 5:10 - you're absolutely correct. We find ourselves in this bureacratic nightmare because we've sat by and watched our rights and freedoms be eroded by "gradualism" - little bits disappear each time we're silent.

Oblio, and he'd be tased for wearing his sword. - I laughed out loud when I first read that, but I should have cried. Self-defense weapons? Who needs 'em? The state will take care of you. You some kind of nut, or what?


Anon 6:47 and Anon 7:01, so, you believe that because there is a law saying hands must be washed, and food kept safe, it actually happens.

If that's so, why do we find, time and again, restaurants that have deplorable cleanliness practices?

Back in the 1970's - before many of these Nanny State laws had raised their ugly heads, I worked in a restaurant. First as a dishwasher, then as a cook.

This was a wildly successful restaurant. Somehow, we were able to produce great tasting and clean food. How is that possible considering the State didn't make us wear latex gloves, or hair nets or beard nets?

It's because the owner knew that if just one customer got sick, it could ruin his business. All of his hard work and capital would be put at risk if he let his employees - about a quarter of which were high school students - put out an inferior product.

His customers would make the choice to take their discretionary income to a restaruant that didn't (literally) make them puke.

You presume that since the state has blessed a business as compliant, it is good. I make my decisions based upon referrals and personal experience, not some false Seal Of Approval.

Anon 7:07, I simply do not one raw milk and products made from raw milk introduced into the food supply.

Uhm, don't buy them. Simple, see? No need for totalitarian food cops.

Adam, amen, brother. The concept of no personal freedom of choice has become so ingrained into our lives that people like anon 7:07 can't think of a world where someone else doesn't tell them what they and their children can do with their lives.

If some branch of government doesn't allow something, it simply cannot be done. We've become a nation of, "Mother May I's".

Anon 7:02, what would be the result of the bad cheese being sold by the lunch truck? They'd go out of business. The state's ban on raw milk products was irrelevant. It didn't stop the bad milk from being served.

The market will regulate bad behavior and poor choices. The state simply infringes upon personal freedom and choice.

Anonymous said...

For you luddites I believe that the problem is as simple as you do not know what you do not know. In the past raw milk and products made from raw milk did indeed make it into the food chain. Your naive comment "Uhm, don't buy them. Simple, see? No need for totalitarian food cops." illustrates what you do not know. Obviously if the consumer can tell there is raw milk in their food they have a choice but when they cannot tell their choice has been taken from them. You claim to be all about rights but you are eager to take the right of the consumer to know what is in their food. I don't care if you drink raw milk or eat dirt I simply do not care where your luddite brain takes you. I do not want to go down this path with you simply because you choose to remain ignorant to the risks. You and others like you choose to remain ignorant of the risks raw milk carry and want to act as though the constitution gives you the right to jam it down my throat because you refuse to educate yourself. You are wrong!

Chief Instructor said...

Anon, your blind desire to drink pasteurized milk has proceeded typically for a pro-Statist. From the original post -

With the raw milk, for instance, the regulation should state that since raw milk has the potential to cause harm to humans, the producers need to put a big, bright red label on every bottle that states as much. Similar to what they do with cigarettes. You've been informed that this stuff might kill you, now do what you want.

You are of the misguided belief that by simply having a law, a problem is fixed. Make it illegal for felons to possess guns, and they won't possess them. Make it illegal to sell raw milk, and it will never make it into the food stream. Make it illegal to drive drunk, and it won't happen.

When people like you then see that the law is ineffective in directly stopping the new "crime", you pull a new, more draconian law out of your collective asses.

Restrict ALL gun access and the problem with felons will go away. Restrict ALL raw milk access, and the problem will go away. Crap on the Constitution and set up illegal, dragnet checkpoints, and drunk driving will go away.

How's that working out for you?

Chief Instructor said...

Sorry, my condescending ending got lobbed off:

You see, cupcake, life has risks. Always has, always will. I prefer to become educated about the risk, and then make my own choice.

You, on the other hand what The State to remove the risk for you. The problem is, they can't do it. No matter how hard they try, felons will get guns, raw milk will find its way into the food stream and drunks will drive.

Our form of government was designed to punish those that have harmed others. If you're a felon, and you shoot someone, you go away forever. If your cows produce crappy raw milk, and someone is harmed, you get sued and put out of business. If you drive drunk, and harm someone, you go away for the same amount of time as though you attacked the victim with a baseball bat.

Punish bad behavior, not potential behavior.

I know, I know, you still don't get it. Enjoy your state-constructed cocoon. It might be a bit restrictive, but you're safe, right? Right?

You're not living, you're just alive.

Anonymous said...

Well dumpling, believe it or not the FDA's job is to remove risks in unsafe food practices. Ironically your point seems to be that since it isn't 100% effective what the hell we should then be allowed to do whatever we want. Somehow I doubt you believe that but since you want raw milk so badly you are willing to put everyone at risk to get your way. One fact remains and that is raw milk is dangerous and the FDA has an obligation to protect us from that danger.
How you got onto the gun issue is kinda murky I assume you are hoping to appeal to the gun issue to prop up your sour milk fettish.

Chief Instructor said...

I get it. You don't care for your freedom - your cocoon is too nice and snug - Constitution be damned (that, by the way, is how guns and drunk driving made their way into the conversations. I know, I know, you don't understand that either).

I'll leave you with this -

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams

Anonymous said...

I'm no crouch'er or hand licker. But I do expect that when I go in a restaurant or a food store that they have followed the commonly accepted practices regarding food safety especially those practices that are the law. I do not want a situation where there is no law and contrary to what you have said I doubt you do either. You may not like the law; fine, work to change it. I happen to believe it is unsafe to drink raw milk and I don't want to have it included in any food available to me or my family. Most voters feel the same way. When 51% or more of the voters want raw milk in the food chain then it may well become legal. Until then it is required that we all obey the law that puts limits on raw dairy products.

Anonymous said...

So late to this party, but I just cant help myself....

Just yesterday I heard they have expanded a recall on some home grown food... This didnt come from a local farmer, this came from a industrial farm - you know the ones that the Government is supposed to make sure is safe. Now, amazingly enough, I have been drinking raw milk and eating raw milk cheese and eating eggs that have not be pasteurized for years and we are HEALTHIER than when we ate and drank the koolaid, er... the stuff sold by the people who promised it would stay safe.

I am not going to argue which is better for you, but do your research. I am also not going to argue who makes people sick, industrial farms or local farms. I am also not going to point out your flawed logic in that MILLIONS of people for THOUSANDS OF YEARS drank and ate raw milk and raw milk products and the human race is still alive to discuss your skewed view.

I would like to know why you get to decide what I get to do. What makes you so special? How about if it were reversed? Would you want me to be able to tell you what you have to do? Dont like that? Then get the hell out of my fridge and let me go about my business because at some point, the government will get to something that you believe in and then who will back you up?

And on a side note, how about you not swallowing everything the Government feeds you about what is "safe" and what isnt. They have an ulterior motive to lie to you - they want to control you. But apparently, they have done a good job... Go Propaganda....